• Dave Thomas

    Good hell, if I had to worry about succumbing completely to foreign influences wherever I went, I would never leave the house. Actually, I wouldn’t go home, either. We have ants. Talk about hive-mindedness.

  • http://www.perilsofleisure.com paula

    If there’s ONE thing I’ve learned from simply observing my friends’ procreation efforts, is that there is nothing quite like the built-in baby-sitting aspect of having family close by. No one will ever love your baby more. Although, speaking for myself only, I do tend to worry about the brainwashing efforts my family might initiate toward converting our child into a bible-owning Catholic, but still…free baby-sitting! Also, if it doesn’t work out, you can always move back before the child is old enough to be assimilated. :-)

  • http://aprilgem.com/log April

    This, now that I’m moving north to Huntington Beach?! I won’t have any cool blogger neighbors!

  • se

    Dave Thomas
    You’re funny. I’m talking about a pretty monochromatic, far-reaching influence. Want to learn about influence, spend a chunk of time in Utah. I wouldn’t worry about the ants back home, unless they vote, teach your children, carry a gun, decide who gets hired, etc.

  • yesno0001

    The Utah state dance is the Square Dance. In California, it’s the West Coast Swing.

    Case closed.

  • http://isleofavalon.blogspot.com scared of mullets

    hmmm… haven’t been to Northern Utah, but went through Southern Utah, and must say it was a hotbed of mullet activity, as well as a haven for those with dubious showering habits… Have you considered moving elsewhere in California? A suburb perhaps, or Nothern California?

  • ex southern babtist

    Shoefly has a point…do you really want to limit yourselves to only traditional methods?

  • http://www.heartparts.com chris

    i love utah. where else can you get a 2 bedroom apartment for 425 dollars a month? besides the summer i think the weather is really nice. Totally Awesome ComputersÆ commercials are always entertaining. Trax is an clean, cheap way to get downtown. I get excited when i go to utah just so i can eat at some of the restaurants. Evergreen cafe, Bangkok Thai, Chuck O’ Rama, Tucci’s, Oasis… there’s some more but i can’t think of them all right now. Anyways, don’t be such a pessimist.

  • http://arielmeadow.com/electrolicious Ariel

    While this saddens me on a purely selfish “all-about-me” level (I move to LA…and then you two move away!), I absolutely understand the cost efficiency of Utah, and the pragmatism of free childcare and familial support. I have every intention of being back on Bainbridge Island, WA, when I pop my little wiggler out. Whenever that may be. (And please do not tell my parents that we discussed this — they would get too excited.)

  • how did you know my name was Dirty?

    Say it isn’t so!!

    I swore when I turned 18 that I would move away from all that is hick (St. Mary’s County, MD) and never look back. Five years later I found myself moving back east.

    My compromise? Live in an urban area and never, I mean n-e-v-e-r again live within an hour’s drive of what I lovingly call “The Fah-ma-lee”.

  • http://www.helenjane.com helenjane

    I will heretofore submit a solemn request for you to move to Portland, Oregon, where we are moving.

    I promise, the futurehusband and I will not hardly be creepy at all, hardly.

    Boozy scrabble nights.

    Crashing on our floor “till you find a place.”

    We wouldn’t hardly notice your procreatin’ at all…

  • http://www.reddeyez.com ryan

    anywhere, anywhere… anywhere but Utah…

  • LK

    you’re right, ms. dooce, LA is no place to raise a kid… but where else are you gonna have movie stars come into your kitchen to take scavenger hunt pictures and where else are you gonna see them make out in front of a crowded elevator? :D

    ahh well.

  • Scotty The Body

    I actually think Salt Lake City is a fine town (I’m originally from Colorado). I try to convince my wife that we could sell our house in Atlanta, buy a nice bungalow in SLC and get good jobs with nice weather and outdoor activities and clean air and all that. Mormon’s may be a bit “boring,” but, on the whole, they are nice, friendly, hard-working and common sense enabled. Except for that whole part about the angel on the Temple blowing his horn and having all the Mormons bring him their powdered milk. That’s a little strange.

  • Zan

    Well, at least there’s good skiing in Utah (not much skiing in LA proper, I suppose).

  • http://www.ci.baltimore.md.us/ Ex-liontamer

    Dooce, I understand the need for an “achievable” lifestyle. That’s why I live in Baltimore (Hey, Hon!), and not North Jersey (T’sup, dude!) I can dig that. As far as the Utah/Mormon tip, I can only speak on conjecture, not experience. Personally I would have a secret glee telling all my funny-underwear-havin’ neighbors there is no magic man in the clouds and his (allegedly) only begotten son was a Buddhist. Tee-hee! I’m welling up with Atheistic contempt already! Somebody pour me a cuppa joe and light me a smoke… I’M GOING IN! Yeeee-haaa!

  • http://bornalion.org jess

    ack, you can’t actually be serious, can you? you don’t want to go back to utah. you really really really don’t.

    find… a baby expert in california. they have to have at least one hiding somewhere.

    oh well. i guess there’s always shlitz malt liquor. i think i might even have some somewhere…

  • Wayne

    Don’t go to Utah because you’ll have to deal with this:
    (A direct quote from a woman interviewed on NPR’s Morning Edition:)
    “We’re not illiterate. We’re smart people. There’s some mighty smart people that lives in the Utah.”
    God bless her, she’s absolutely correct.
    Then again, your sisterís hair has that incredible gravitational attraction….

  • http://convivial.blogspot.com Heather #2

    Every time I come visit and think I’m going to laugh, you always hit us up on the real tip. OK, have you thought about moving anywhere besides Utah? Here’s a thought: Portland, OR. That’s where I’m from, although I just moved to Pittsburgh. Portland is great, if you liked Cali, you’ll probably love Portland. Smaller, conducive to family life, but still west coast – think java on every corner. See here and here. Just a thought. Plus, you could drive home anytime – it’s far, but not that far.

  • Wayne

    Don’t go to Utah because you’ll have to deal with this:
    (A direct quote from a woman interviewed on NPR’s Morning Edition)
    “We’re not illiterate. We’re smart people. There’s some mighty smart people that lives in the Utah.”
    God bless her, she’s absolutely correct.
    Then again, your sisterís hair has that incredible gravitational attraction….

  • http://thepropagandist.com the propagandist


    Utah is encino without the glitz.

    don’t do it! the sacrifice of LA far outweighs the martyrdom of Utah.

  • http://blab-o-rama.home.att.net Beerzie Boy

    Never live in a state with politicians named Orrin. All of California is expensive, but you are living in the wrong California. Move to Northern California. Even Fresno or Sacramento has to be better than Utah.

  • http://convivial.blogspot.com Heather #2

    Ooh, HelenJane, I just read your post! I think we could talk her into that move, and I bet she’d love, say, 23rd or Hawthorne, don’tcha think? Ooh, or Sellwood. Yep, I think Sellwood might be just the spot for our girl, Dooce. Hey, HelenJane, where are you from in Portland?

  • pinky

    Hi dooce. You may have to leave LA, but there are lots of cheap beautiful places with seasons and backyards AND coffee and beer. Like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and so many more. People have babies there, they just don’t have them with their uncles, know what I mean? And there are fabulous cities, and you could be just a day’s drive from your sister’s hair and your mom’s shampoo. You have always struck me as kind of a Minneapolis/St. Paul girl, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. Good luck, I mean it.

  • Deuce

    dear, god. does this mean i get your parking space? whoo-hoo!

    uh, i mean, please don’t go. stay. but then utah is beautiful, so…

  • Dave Thomas

    People. For once, think of yourselves.

    How many more bizarre celeb brushings can we expect Dooce to have in LA? There are only so many elevators.

    Utah, on the other hand, is dark, fertile soil. There will be stories. And they wonít make you think: “Hey, Giovani Ribisi is gross…Hm, I wonder what it’s like to be Giovani Ribisi…”. No, you can enjoy the Utah freak show with pure, untainted schadenfruedidity.

    Run, Dooce. Run to the everlasting hills. And take lots of notes.

  • devil

    I escape from utah for 3 years, I had to go to Alaska to get away from the utah vortex. i am back now I am in Park City the only place in Utah that you can drink beer in a public park. It is not bad here, any palace is better than LA. If you like the sunny weather find some place else. For gods sake please stay away from Provo, that place is evil.

  • kelley

    Beerzie Boy, as a happy homeowner with two happy hounds frolicking in their very large backyard, this Sacramentan is offended. Come to Northern CA, Dooce, it’s beautiful here. Easy drive to Utah. Though I understand the lure of family connections for those reproducing years, and you & the kids can always visit the Osmond studios on weekends. The dilemma.

  • http://qualitypeoples.com edmund b

    PLEASE DON’T DO IT, DOOCE! i understand why you are doing it, but just think of all the cool art-house flicks you’ll be missing out on. don’t don’t don’t do it. if you need to move somewhere full of jerk-offs where you can get more land for your money, move to valencia. it’s not that bad. when things with the neighbors get really bad, you and the husband can sneak off to calarts and go skinny dipping in the pool. think about it!

  • http://audra_humphrey@hotmail.com Memphis Girrrl

    Remember high school in memphis and how we were the mormon freaks, now your kids in utah will be the non-mormon freaks. definitely think twice. but hey, i remember buying a gallon of milk there with 160 pennies.

  • http://www.etherdrift.net/arnoldcam arnold

    what’s the diversity of ethnicity and culture in SLC like? more importantly, are there Starbucks there?

  • http://www.vianya.net vianya

    Seriously, Portland OR…I live there too. We have seasons and you can buy a house with a yard and the people here are laid back and there are only a few Mormons.

  • http://sx70.blogspot.com eggbert

    wait a minute. wait a minute. i’m going to be selfish here, but if you move to utah, and you move to utah soon, then that will mean that soon we will have less-interesting dooce posts. it’s like the time i was taking prozac. things were good, they were easy. no problemo, therefore no personality, so there. having said all that, a.d’s have not kept you from posting interesting bits all this time, so maybe that theory sucks. like utah.

  • http://www.novenarik.org Jory

    I never thought I’d go out on this limb but:

    Oh, honestly. Utah isn’t *that* bad. I moved back after 10 years elsewhere (Germany, Arizona, and California — not mormon btw), and quite frankly its great. I don’t think I could have said this 5 years ago, or even two years ago, but honestly, the Olympics worked wonders.
    It was like the sheltered people of UT saw that there was this whole world out there, and shock of shocks, opened their arms willingly.

    As far as cultural goulash goes; almost any art house flick you’ll ever want to see is playing down in Salt Lake, we get tons and tons of *real* concerts, there’s awesome bars and clubs, tons of museums, etc.

    Besides that it’s a huge, ballooning mecca of e-commerce and IT savvy companies, theres no shortage of jobs, the cost of living is low, and above all, it *is* a really great place to raise kids.

    It’s safe, its comfortable, there is no shortage of baby-sitters, and with that many Mormons in the neighborhood, you get a free weeks worth of meals when you move in garaunteed. Ot at least I did. I think you can triple that if you play the innactive member card.

    But yeah, I’ll go with Mal on this one, you need any help, give me a ring. Where would you be moving to, by the way?

  • http://www.foreignlabor.com The Inmate

    The entire country is screwed up. I say you move out of the US altogether. That’s what I did. Plenty of nicer places out here. Unless of course, you’ve managed to become dependent on the decadence of American society.

  • http://www.injust-spring.com Alex

    Ultimately, it’s Dooce and Jon’s decision (which I’m sure it wasn’t an easy one)and if they must do it for the chillins, then they must.

    I am considering moving from Chicago to Louisiana (where the husband is from) when the time comes to have some pipsqueaks. There’s no way I’m raising a kid without a backyard! And a backyard in Chicago doesn’t come cheap.

    So I know that sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do…

  • http://none!(sorry!) \b{Kim}

    Re: The Portland discussion- I live in Portland currently, and it seems like it might be a nice compromise. There *is* weather, but it’s only kind of weather, which may lessen or prevent the sudden shock of under 60-degree winters. (Though I personally would wonder why you want distinct seasons- I’m a 80-degree-year-round-girl meself.) We rent, but I have a few friends who bought, and you can get decent property for less than LA prices (though Utah is probably cheaper). The best Portland argument I’ve heard recently is that Portland is a (small, admittedly) city with a big-town feel. I think it’s because Portland, due to stellar city planning, has a lot of mixed-use neighborhoods– you know, private residences, apartments, restaurants & shops– all in one small area. It means you can walk (!!) to a coffee shop or the grocery store from your house. Or to the park, so Chuckles can go for a run with the other neighborhood dogs & chase squirrels.
    Plus, there are a bunch of cool second-run & limited-release theaters in which you can purchase & consume beer & pizza while you watch movies (good if what you do for fun is watch movies, like me!). And, as others have pointed out, then you’re close enough to family that you can go see ‘em, but not so close that they show up unannounced at awkward moments (you know, before the “gotta-hide-it-from-the-parents” stuff is safely stashed).

  • http://queserasera.blogspot.com Sarah B.

    Heather, I have been to Utah — SLC, in fact — which perhaps somehow ups the odds that I might one day return to Utah, especially if you have a little liam. I like the idea of my Armstrongs being closer to me!

  • http://www.jennifermurray.net Jen

    What about the stairs? Where are you going to excercise?

  • http://www.target.com I love that Starck stuff at Target

    Bahh. Dooce and Blurb want to take the next step. And LA is for: people to sow their wild oats from early-20s to mid-30s; people who work in “the business” [there's no business like it]; people who like living on a purely “surface” level.
    And Portland, OR has too many goddamn hippies for anyone to stand.

  • http://www.shannoncampbell.info/journal/annereathe.htm Anne

    Bring on the Postum and Freshca!

  • http://www.islandindigo.com Cindi

    I live in Utah and also was raised Mormon. Utah has changed and it’s not so overrun these days by the whole church…although it may seem that way at times. I’m leaving Utah in 67 days for bigger and better. Perhaps you should rethink going to Utah and coming with me to raise your pups on the beach in Costa Rica!

  • http://radio.weblogs.com/0115489/ CraigJ

    Ok, so I get to reset reality here!! Go where your heart and pocketbook lead you, but LEAVE dooce.com somewhere we can find it!!

  • http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html mule-rider

    Oh sister- I understand your stated reasons- however, I have to stand with several others and point out that there are lots of other affordable, still desirable locales where you can have a fun life and still afford babies and a yard for Chuckles.
    From your descriptions of your family interactions it does sound as though you’d have to expend a huge amount of energy just to continue being who you manifestly are in the face of a large amount of social pressure. My experience with Mormon culture is vicarious through friends and an ex- boyfriend, but all of them struggled hugely to keep their sense of integrity and self identity intact when their choices differed from the party line, as it were. The pressure to conform was like nothing I’ve ever seen- Catholic guilt does not even begin to approach it. Good luck, whatever you decide.

  • http://hulk.com/ The Incredible Hulk

    ARGH! Utah make Hulk angry! Dooce make critical mistake moving to Mormon-land! Make Hulk want to smash!

  • http://www.kaneblues.com/ kane

    I think you know in your heart that a move to Utah will mean that you will eventually be living a lifestyle which caused you to move from there in the first place. Before you know it, you will once again be Morman, and soon husband will have four other wives and you will be sacrificing chickens.

  • http://www.turbanhead.com/blogger.html Me

    We’re thinking of doing the same. Moving to Utah with our stash of Olde English, getting sh*tfaced and bukkaking everyone in sight!

  • wanna get high

    reasons la is better than utah.

    -per capita the most beautiful looking people on the planet.
    -vegas is closer
    -better totally nude joints
    -weed is easier to score
    -u can be totally insane & fit right in
    -dress code? what dress code
    -home of the world champions la lakers
    -shaq & ozzie resides here
    -if u happen to get a divorce 1/2 of his is yours
    -more murders occur here (drive by shootings got envogue here for christ sake)
    -higher salaries & better jobs (u think u can get a personal assistant job in utah?)
    -bukowski lived here
    -it’s la la land
    -they sell crack on the streets

  • http://www.blurbomat.com The Husband

    What caused us to leave UT? .com jobs. Leaving the church is another matter altogether.
    Salt Lake is 50/50 mo/nomo. Salt Lake has the beer/pizza movie thing. Salt Lake has cheap housing. Salt Lake has .com jobs. Salt Lake was where we did this.
    The other thing is that the powder is about 30 minutes away. And not crap powder, either.
    You people think we don’t have spines? You think we are that weak? HA! Me and Chuck are laughing at you right now from atop the 16 palettes of Ketel One.

  • http://www.infocostarica.com The Inmate

    I wholeheartedly support Cindi’s suggestion. Costa Rica is an excellent place to live. Cheap, tranquil and pretty well wired. Oh, and the beaches are fantastic. It’s not a great place to be an inmate, but it sure beats LA for living.