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Featured community question with accompanying regional differences

Today's featured question comes from user wishfullthinking:

Since I grew up in the South and was raised by two very proper, Southern parents, I wasn't ever to refer to a woman as anything else. It was YES, MA'AM. NO MA'AM. WHATEVER YOU WANT, MA'AM. Same thing with Sir. It was a way of showing respect to anyone older than myself, meaning anyone who had lived more, hurt more, learned more, and knew more than I did. This may surprise you, but there is an old-fashioned part of me that really likes this. See? I'm not just some dirty ho-bag who'd empty her poop bucket in your yard.

I remember an instance from my childhood... I must have been nine or ten years old, and my mother called me from the other room.

"Heather!" she yelled, and I could tell that she wanted me to come to her instantly. But I was nine years old and probably cutting the fingers off of a pair of lacy gloves so that I could accurately recreate Madonna's "Borderline" video. Important work.

So I yelled back, "WHAT?!"

Yeah. WRONG THING TO DO. Especially when your father grew up in the projects of Louisville, Kentucky and worked his way up and out of poverty. Because he was in my room within seconds, his face a millimeter from my own instructing me that if I ever answered my mother with a WHAT?! ever again I'd never live to see Madonna in her iconic Jean-Paul Gaultier cone bra phase.

When my mother called me, he said, I should run to her immediately and say, "Yes, ma'am?"

Let's just put it this way: my father never had to tell me anything more than once.

Other practices he taught me: I don't carry a single penny of debt other than my mortgage. I always say hello and smile to the person checking out my groceries. I'm never late to anything. And most important: MURPHY'S LAW. Watch out for it. My father would never put it this way, but I know he believes that Murphy is one sneaky bastard.

It wasn't until I got to BYU in 1993 for my freshman year in college that I learned some people might actually take offense to this expression. Like, people actually recoiled when I referred to them as Ma'am or Sir because they thought I was somehow making fun of them, or implying that they were old. When really I was just giving them the respect they were due. And so I didn't know what to call people. You there? Hey you? Mr.? Ms.? Almighty? Your highness? Shithead?

And then when I eventually ended up in California I learned that everyone expects to be called Dude. YES, DUDE. NO DUDE. WHATEVER YOU WANT, DUUUUUUDE.

Since it's a no-no in Utah to refer to people as Ma'am or Sir we're teaching Leta to refer to people as they wish. Meaning, some people prefer to be called by their first names, some as Mr. or Ms. We're teaching her that it's important to show respect by inquiring and abiding by what individual people are most comfortable with. I'd love to teach her Ma'am or Sir, but I'm afraid she'd eventually get smacked for insubordination.

However, I do let her get away with calling me Mom when we all know I prefer Wondrous Being of Light and Splendor. We're working on this one.

04.21.2010 Community, Daily 117 comments

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  • souphead said:

    growing up in NY most adults were called either by their first names (most of my parents' friends) or so-and-so's mom/dad ("hi Liza's mom" "hey Justin's dad. how are you?"). terribly informal.

    My hubby is from Texas where it was Miss or Mr. whoever - His friend's daughter calls me "Miss Suzanne". It's odd, but I do get a feeling of respect and definitely prefer it to being called ma'am. Ma'am just makes me feel OLD!

    04.21.10 - 09:29 AM / 1
  • crooked_teeth said:

    I'm always on the look-out for being "Ma'am"ed as I think of it; give me a "Miss" any day. Makes me feel young and frisky!

    04.21.10 - 09:33 AM / 2
  • firefly1818 said:

    I'm used to Miss and Mr., although some people are still confused as to why I would refer to my boss or admin as Ms Mona, etc.

    04.21.10 - 09:39 AM / 3
  • The Christine said:

    Ahhh yes, I'll never forget the first time someone called me "Ma'am" - I was working retail over the summer. At the ripe old age of 21, hearing "Ma'am" from a tween in the Juniors department of Macy's was like a knife in the back. I wanted to fall into a grave and die right there next to the Guess booty shorts. Here I am eight years later teaching my kids to call me Mama. No ma'ams around here. Bad mojo.

    04.21.10 - 09:42 AM / 4
  • jon said:

    Her family refers to it as Murphy's Law.

    I refer to it as "The Glass Never Has Water. EVER. JON."

    04.21.10 - 09:43 AM / 5
  • tonya said:

    I had the opposite experience. I grew up in the military, but we never lived in the south. If I said, "Yes Ma'am" or "No Sir," I was being a smart ass. (Only to my parents. I was always very respectful to everyone else!) When I was fifteen, we came to small town, Tennessee, and was I ever in for a culture shock. Early on, a teacher asked me if I was finished with my test. I answered, "Yes." He said, "Yes, what?" I said, "Yes, I'm finished." The class broke out in giggles, he was super pissed, and I was totally clueless. He then went off on me and I was quickly educated on the art of Yes Sir. Twenty years later, I ma'am and sir just about everyone, and I've taught my children to as well. They also call all adults by "Mr." or "Miss" followed by their first or last names. That's another thing I did: called adults by their first names. Seems sort of disrespectful now that I look back on it.

    04.21.10 - 09:49 AM / 6
  • quails said:

    I'm from the West coast, and growing up, everyone-- including my teachers, since I went to a funky co-op school-- went by first names. Now I do martial arts and everyone, even kids, get called sir and ma'am, and I really dig the mutual respect it fosters. I don't know if I'd feel the same if I hadn't grown up on the dead opposite of the formality spectrum, though.

    04.21.10 - 09:52 AM / 7
  • ttwiix said:

    Being born in Michigan I was never taught to say ma'am or sir. It was always Mr or Mrs, so in so... or if they preferred their first names. Moving to Florida as a young child I guess I was too stubborn to pick this up and it wasn't until I started working retail that I started using this as a way to be polite to customers. However, I didnt think it was my place to try and determine how old or young someone was so I used ma'am or sir with every customer...even if they were my age or younger. No biggie.

    04.21.10 - 09:53 AM / 8
  • kayakgrrl said:

    I promise that I won't want to punch you in the face if you call me ma'am. Because people with cute accents like yours can totally get away with it.

    (But I still feel OLD when the kid bagging my groceries calls me ma'am. *sigh*)

    04.21.10 - 10:00 AM / 9
  • hackmanrj said:

    I was brought up in the North and the South (all East coast though). In the North it was Mr./Mrs. last name. In the South it was Ma'am or Mr./Miss first name. I tend to go by the Mr./Miss first name for kids if they know the people. It still shows respect, but makes them familiar and approachable. I don't really mind being called ma'am, but it does give me a little punch-in-the-gut feeling when it's done by someone 2 years younger than me. Oh well. I'd still prefer ma'am to "hey lady".

    04.21.10 - 10:02 AM / 10
  • deepthoughts78 said:

    I think that most people say Sir and Ma'am (and even Mr. and Mrs.) out of respect. So the proper response to someone calling you Ma'am (even if you don't like it) is to let it slide and just simply respond to them. It seems very rude to correct someone for saying something out of respect.

    04.21.10 - 10:02 AM / 11
  • ThePeanut said:

    Down here in the south, kids refer to women adults that are family friends as 'Miss' (and then attach your name). ex. Miss Stephanie.

    I think it's so cute and somewhat formal without being tooo formal.

    04.21.10 - 10:05 AM / 12
  • LuckIsMyMiddleName said:

    In my women's studies class in college, the lone guy in the class once related a story of calling a woman "ma'am," and having her respond nastily, "I work for a living." As if he were using it as shorthand for "madam." As in, a madam.

    I don't love being called "ma'am," but I really hate being called "miss." To me--as someone who can look 10 years younger than I am, which is not yet old enough for that to be an entirely good thing--it seems condescending. But I work in retail, so both occasionally happen, and I just shake them off. I very much agree with deepthoughts78.

    04.21.10 - 10:20 AM / 13
  • Gypsy said:

    When I first started teaching at the ripe old age of 21, I was tempted to tell my students that they could call me Bitch or Whore if they would PLEASE just stop calling me Ma'am.

    Now, older and more mature, I kinda like it.

    My kid will be taught to call people Mr. and Ms. So-and-so until he is told differently, and like your parents, I believe in a "Yes, Ma'am?" or a "Yes, Mommy?" as a response when I call him. Call me rigid, but I want a respectful kid. Having been a teacher, I see the effect of otherwise, and they are not good - for kids or adults.

    04.21.10 - 10:20 AM / 14
  • Christy B said:

    I grew up in California and have never called anyone Sir or Ma'am. My daughter even first names her father and I. (We are trying to break her of this habit at the ripe old age of 10...) But I think living in California has given us all that laid back attitude with regards to formality and politeness. It doesn't really phase me that she first names us but others look at us in horror and remind us we need to break her of it. I think she does it because she's an only child and hears everyone else call us that.....or maybe she was just raised by unclassy, lazy parents?!?!?

    04.21.10 - 10:21 AM / 15
  • MaryAnn said:

    I grew up in Texas and haven't left... so I still say Ma'am and Sir.
    But the day I turned 30, I was called Ma'am at the grocery store.

    04.21.10 - 10:23 AM / 16
  • acm said:

    I grew up (Michigan) with Mrs. Smith, Mr. Burns, whatever. Was really hard for me when some highschool/college teachers wanted first names, although I got over that pretty quick.

    I think for my own kid(s) it will be:
    1) Mr. Smith for people in a formal situation (teachers, onetime introduction, etc.)
    2) Uncle Don/Aunt Karen for our smaller group of close friends that she's likely to see over and over
    3) Mom/Dad/Grandma/etc. for family members (no first names!)
    4) I guess I'd like her friends to call us Mr. X and Ms. Y when the time comes, at least up until they feel like something close to adults (college? thereafter?) -- at least, I hope she'd introduce us that way, and beyond that, it might be beyond our control...

    will be interesting to see how any of this evolves!

    04.21.10 - 10:24 AM / 17
  • wendirobinson said:

    completely agree with deepthoughts 78 and wonder why it's frowned upon in utah. anyone care to catch me up on that one?

    i'm 43 and still say yes ma'am to my mother. she doesn't expect me to at my age, but it's how i was raised and it's a sign of respect. i don't usually say it to someone my age or younger, but i don't think "thank you, ma'am" said in a friendly way should ever be looked at as insulting. if you're so sensitive about your age that being called ma'am is an insult, i say just be glad you've been given the opportunity to earn that ma'am. the alternative sucks!

    04.21.10 - 10:27 AM / 18
  • Greta Koenigin said:

    It's true that in California Ma'am and Sir have the teensiest twinge of sounding tongue-in-cheek since, in our state, it's, like, kinda weird to be, like, overly formal or whatever.

    BUT, I used to teach high school and would often call the students Ma'am or Sir and only 1.2% of me was making fun of them and, frankly, they expect that from their teachers since students are making fun of teachers 86% of the time. All in all, however, I think they appreciated that someone older was treating them with 98.8% respect. (Is my math right?)

    So, in the end, we Californians like hella mixing our Dudes in with Ma'ams and Sirs. "Oh, Ma'am, I was, like all, DUUUUUUUUDE!"

    04.21.10 - 10:29 AM / 19
  • sonjabean said:

    Well, I'm 35 now. I use the word "ma'am" very rarely and only to get the attention of someone very clearly older than me that I don't know. (And as I get older, the number of people who fit that description keeps getting smaller. Funny that. And depressing. But I digress.) So if an older woman dropped her purse or something in the grocery store, I would say, "Ma'am? You dropped your purse." That's pretty much it. "Sir" works the same way. I would never use either for someone that I knew as a common way of referring to them.

    I think that maybe I used "ma'am" and "sir" a bit more when I was a small child - under the age of 10. I have some recollections of using it. But I don't teach my children to use it. The most formal we get is to have them call the mothers of their friends (we're talking the preschool set) by the term Miss First Name. Fathers get no such respect, as Mr. First Name sounds ridiculous.

    I, however, am "ma'am"ed occasionally. How do I feel about it? Well, it's not great. But it's not the worst thing ever, and I'm getting used to it as my age advances. I get it mostly from young store or restaurant employees.

    04.21.10 - 10:34 AM / 20
  • mylene169 said:

    I grew up in Michigan so no ma'am or sir here either. However most of my friend's parents were also teachers in our school, so they were all Mr. and Mrs. I don't recall ever calling any of them by first names until High School or if they were also friends with my parents. I'm actually friends with a couple on facebook and they are STILL Mrs./Mr.
    We're in Iowa now and still no ma'am or sir. I think we'll teach our kids the same as Heather is teaching Leta - to ask how other adults would like to be addressed. Right now, everyone is first names and they are all okay with that.

    04.21.10 - 10:36 AM / 21
  • kristanhoffman said:

    Awww, this made me all warm-fuzzy for you and your dad's relationship. Which I know was totally not the point, but still.

    04.21.10 - 10:36 AM / 22
  • elstevero said:

    I grew up in Arkansas and haven't left yet. I Sir and Ma'am everyone, even little boys and girls.

    04.21.10 - 10:37 AM / 23
  • glam mama said:

    I, too, am from the south (still live there) and make my kids use "ma'am" and "sir", I try to use it as well, even though I am thirty-freakin'-five. Once it is ingrained in you... it's hard to stop.

    I also wanted to comment about what Leta calls you. My kids have to start every sentence with "mama", I swear! I got so tired of hearing it that I told them they had to start calling me "beautiful" instead. It actually worked for a day or so. It was so nice hearing, "Beautiful, can you get me some juice please?" I told them when I got tired of that I would be called "O Most Intelligent One." Never got to that though... Mama came roaring back!

    04.21.10 - 10:44 AM / 24
  • fairytate said:

    In response to living in California and everyone wanting to be called "Dude"...

    I live in New Jersey and have a 17 month old at home. My older brother (Uncle Charlie) lives with my husband, my daughter, and I. She knows everyone's names (Nana, Papa, Uncle Matt, Maggie the dog, etc.) but for whatever reason refuses to even try to say Charlie or Chuck or anything of the sort. Instead, she insists on calling him Dude. We have no idea where it came from, as we try to correct her every time she says it, but he is Dude nonetheless.

    04.21.10 - 10:47 AM / 25
  • stumbull said:

    Southern born, bred, and still residing and we call EVERYONE older than ourselves Ma'am and Sir. I did not know there was another way for a very long time. I personally plan on teaching my kids to say it as a form of respect. I did however get LAUGHED at the first time I visited New York and said it to someone. Oh well that is how we do it in the South and as long I am here that is what I will do.

    04.21.10 - 10:51 AM / 26
  • dulcinea47 said:

    I grew up in the midwest (Kansas and Missouri) and never called anyone Sir or Ma'am until I worked in a call center in my early 20s. It was required there. I never use it now, unless maybe I need to get a stranger's attention, such as "Excuse me ma'am you dropped something!"

    04.21.10 - 10:53 AM / 27
  • PinkGator said:

    Is your father is from Tennessee? I had the exact same experience...except that he was the one yelling for me from across the house. Ditto with the one-millimeter-from-my-face do-better talk.

    And ALL of the other practices your father taught you...mine taught me as well. His personal favorite: Five minutes early is on time. Understandably, mother has a difficult time getting him to understand that it's okay to be a "few minutes later" to a cocktail party.

    04.21.10 - 10:55 AM / 28
  • NatW said:

    I grew up an hour away from you and was taught the same thing. It's about respect.

    04.21.10 - 10:57 AM / 29
  • Nothing But Bonfires said:

    When I moved to Charleston, South Carolina, I started tutoring this little boy called John William, and the first time he said "yes, ma'am" I was like WHAT? I'm not a MA'AM! I'm TWENTY THREE. But after that, I kind of grew to like it. At least from little kids -- not so keen on it from grocery store clerks.

    I prefer what they say in England though, which is "madam." Somehow, "Madam, do you have any ID to purchase that large bottle of wine?" sounds so much better.

    04.21.10 - 10:58 AM / 30
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