Reason Number 16
Monday, December 16 2002
File Under:
Daily, Mormonism, Utah
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There are several reasons why I left the Mormon Church, all of which I've only ever articulated to my husband and, on occasion, my dog. Many of these reasons are not only related to why I left Utah in the first place, but they are also inextricable from Utah culture as a whole. And I thought that after four years of distance and intermittent therapy I might be capable of coming back here without feeling the bitterness that sent me fleeing in the first place.
Just a side note here: I already know that many of you are going to complain that I'm talking about the Mormons again and that you like it when my posts talk about funny things, couldn't I just stop being so serious because this is really getting boring. And don't think that I haven't considered turning off my comments when people make remarks like that, as if the sole purpose of maintaining my website it to entertain some 13-yr old in Wisconsin who likes to talk about farts.
When I moved to California I never listened to the radio, except for NPR, and I never watched the local news, except for Good Day LA and then only because I couldn't wait to see what Jillian Barberie had sticking out of her water bra. I never felt a need in California to keep up with social or political currency because it surrounded me, almost suffocated me. It was like, everyone knew that a bill was being considered to outlaw gay marriage, not by watching the local NBC affiliate, but by osmosis.
But here in Utah I can't stop listening to the radio, regardless of the endless stream of mind-numbing bubba dink music from Linkin Park or Creed or, for the love of God, Puddle of Fucking Mud. I watch the local news every night, if only to perform my duty as a Democrat living in Utah, sometimes to figure out how they get all that blonde hair to encircle that woman's face like a gold laminate life saver every time.
And I know it's only been four years, and that people need some time to change, but the same issues and the same reactions are happening right now, this morning, just as they were a decade, two decades, four generations of Polygamist colonization ago.
And the main issue that gets me every time, that rips free the hardening scab to expose a bubbling, bitter hole in my soul is the idea that if I can't just be quiet and accept the way things are here, I should just move elsewhere. I was told this at BYU, that if I couldn't accept the leadership of the Prophet of God, who sat on the board of directors of the school, that I should just leave, that hundreds of thousands of other willing disciples would love to take my place and that they wouldn't complain.
Now I hear it when I make the slightest peep to disagree with the fact that the Mormon Church and the Utah State Government are almost one complete unit. I'm supposed to just accept that Utah is predominantly Mormon, and that subsequently a government by the people and for the people of Utah is going to cater to Mormon people. But what I'm not allowed to point out is that I am one of those people now, one of those people who pays taxes and purchases local goods, a person who regularly contributes to the local economy.
And so, I guess to be honest and maybe as an attempt to continue healing, I'll tell you that this issue is one of the reasons why I left the Mormon Church. And although it may seem like an issue specific to just Utah culture, you have to understand that for a Mormon it's very hard to disagree with any Mormon doctrine or practice and still maintain good standing in the church. And I don't know if you can tell or not, but I have a hard time agreeing with anything.
- Four years
Friday, 08 August 2008 - The girl in the window
Wednesday, 06 August 2008 - Newsletter: Month Fifty-four
Tuesday, 05 August 2008 - Next thing you know he'll be voting for Obama
Monday, 04 August 2008 - To the rescue
Thursday, 31 July 2008
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1. heather said:
Maybe you need to find others in the Utah minority. There has to be some other people who aren't Mormon, and that aren't there just to ski.
2. jennifer said:
I don't mind that you are not talking farts or being funny all the time. We, your loyal fans, love you and your blog - with farts and philosophy. I understand the frustration with local politics. I live in the middle of red neck Canada and am often ashamed of my fellow inhabitants. Good luck with the disagreements.
3. Kevin said:
I've struggled with the same problem. I got to a point where I had to start digging and find the distinctions between the Religion and the culture. The Utah Mormon culture is pervasive in the Church. It takes a lot of energy keeping the two separate, and most people don't bother, and don't see the difference when it's pointed out to them. I've considered leaving the church as well, but realized I believe in the Religion much more than I disagree with the insular, narrow-minded culture. As eloquent as you are about farts, I'm more impressed with your eloquence on the serious stuff. Keep it up!
4. The Mighty Jimbo said:
You could always try Arizona. Low cost of living, plenty of Mormons to keep you from getting homesick, and enough silicone and botox and Scottsdale to remind you of LA. All that and plenty of firearms too!
5. Keith said:
Don't know too much about the Mormon content there, but Arizona is nice. I just moved my parents there, so I've become pretty well-versed with the Tucson area. Oh, and Water Bra Airhead Jillian Barberie & I both miss you back here in Los Angeles.
6. Cory said:
I moved to SLC 4 years ago after having lived in and followed progressive, lefty places and politics my whole life. I can't speak to what it might be like to leave behind your family's Church and then move to the place that appears entrenched in it culturally and politically but there is a small but sure community of artistic, progressive 20/30/40-something thinkers in this town that you and Jon will find. (Many of them happen to frequent the dog parks in town, too.)
7. stacey said:
As one of many "recovering Catholics," one who lives in the Boston area, no less, I truly understand how the culture of blind acceptance is rammed down your throat in Utah. Honestly, if we didn't have so many universities and colleges in Massachusetts I'm sure we'd be suffering a drought of questioning, intelligent, liberal folks here as well. Keep pushing back, Dooce. And don't apologize for it.
8. DirtyBillLover said:
Girl, you have no only outlined the problems that you have with the Mormon church, but have also (minus the state issue) outlined my issues with the Catholic church. There is no returning to the fold when you have been blessed with the kind of mind that always-no matter what- wants to fight the power.
Get down with your bad self.
9. Beerzie Boy said:
Dooce, Serious is good, too. Too much of one genre is dull.
Regarding Utah, I would tell you that I understand why you moved there, but if you are unhappy (and I know that this is easier said than done) you should put together a plan to get out.
I have never been stuck in a place in which I was miserable (I live in NorCal) but I have been at miserable jobs, (redundant?) and rather than banging my head against the wall and trying to change them, I hunkered down and tried to devise a plan to get out. Even if it is a five-year plan, if you know you are working your way out, and this can help set your mind at ease.
10. Darren said:
If it's any consolation, your situation is hardly unique to Utah. When anyone asks (not that anyone does), I usually describe myself as a "recovering evangelical," which means that I also don't understand why some sinners are perfectly content to condemn other sinners to hell (usually from the comfort of their Mercedes or Land Rover). For now, I'm trapped in the Bible Belt -- East Tennessee -- where my representative to the state House, who, by the way, "never been to college," runs unopposed every four years on the inbred, guns-rights ticket. I feel for you, Dooce.
11. dennis said:
I think Heather is onto something -- maybe you should try to find some like-minded people. The last thing you want is to have a Ren and Stimpy-style freak-out due to pent up stress.
12. Ex-liontamer said:
"Illegitimi Non Carborundum", baby.
13. robyn said:
After reading this and Blurb's latest post, i'm not only afraid of mormans, i'm afraid of utah too! my only experience with the Mormon Church was a weekend spent with Morman relatives during which we went to their church. i never could put my finger on it, but i was VERY CREEPED OUT. they all seemed like drones. drones that wanted to lure me in and never let me leave. eek! and so, i think you're mighty brave for moving back....
14. Zan said:
Sorry to see that folks are being so hard-headed, Dooce. I would hope that those people who are showing such piety toward the Mormon church would also recognize your rights as an American to disagree. I believe that when we give up challenging those things we disagree with, we begin to slowly die. Granted, the opposition is stiff sometimes, and it certainly is not easy to live in the face of adversity. I sincerely wish you the best of luck. Take care. And don't forget to let Chuck out.
15. Angelique said:
It is strong women like yourself who make the mundane and often belittling practices of the world seem that much more unsettling. I enjoy hearing you purge on these topics. It makes me smile to think that in the dankness of conformity in that state, a sassy-haired goddess is a light of sarchasm and wit for those who hold a slight doubt as to their own comfort in that environment. Your children will be subjected to the same culture you were as a child, but they will have the advantage of a mom and dad who have seen so much of the outside world. Your future little ones are fortunate to have parents that will encourage them to be open to different lives, but to question those lifestyles in accordance with the path of their own. You need to purge this stuff, dooce.... and I enjoy hearing it. Keep up the fight, damn the man, save The Dooces.
16. Naaman said:
What's Chuck's reaction when you tell him that the symbiotic relationship of church and state in Utah is f-ed up?
17. Jen said:
bubba dink?
18. PJ said:
Growing up Catholic, going to parochial schools and all, I think Catholic kids are pretty much indoctrinated to toe the Church line in much the same way. Hell, I still feel guilty every Sunday when we don't go to Mass. It is a mortal sin, and if I died later that day without going to confession, or 'Reconciliation' as it's called now, I would go to Hell. (Please note all things referring to the Church are capitalized to emphasize their primacy in our lives.) Many of us, and I think it's an American thing, oftentimes continue to do what we damn well please anyway. Birth control is an issue that Rome has a big problem with as far as American Catholics are concerned, because the Church's position on it is fairly widely ignored. They say we can't pick and choose which things we want to believe in and follow, but it's working for me. Now I must go say ten Our Fathers and ten Hail Marys. The only other thing your situation brings to mind is that it is kinda like being a Republican in Chicago.
19. farty said:
This is precisely what all those awesome dudes were fighting over when they wrote the federalist and anti-federalist papers, which I read as a 13 year old Wisconsinite, OK? The point of Democracy is emphatically not to create a tyranny of the majority over the minority. How about this: Utah! Love it enough to change it. If people don't like what you have to say, just tell 'em if they don't likeit, THEY CAN LEAVE.
Yours,
Pinky
20. Rachel said:
Dooce, I'm a lapsed Mormon as well (BYU '97), living in Seattle. I totally hear ya, and am drawn to your site because it often echoes my sentiments *exactly.*
Like Ex-Liontamer says, Illegitimi Non Carborundum. Good luck finding your kindred spirits--I only found a few while living there. But, they're there.
21. Sarah B. said:
I would just like to echo Pavement on the Schoolhouse Rock Rocks CD when I say "That's what I call taxation without representation, and that's not fair! It's wrong! It's fucking facism!"
22. Alvin said:
I for one have been ragging on the Pope for the longest time so to hear someone placing thought on the Mormon organization, well, thatís refreshing. At least the head cat there isnít hobbling around blessing everything from newspaper stands to vending machines thinking that they are little misfortunate individuals
23. Erika said:
I've been checking out your site for awhile now and I love it. There's one thing I need clarification on, do you have kids? I thought you had twins and you posted their pictures a lot more. Just curious if it's just you, Jon, and Chuck or if there are lil blonde twins in there somewhere. :) Those babies were cute!
24. James said:
Tonight, on "Mormon Underground" (in Technicolor)...
"Dammit, I need a drink"
"Careful! Use of language like that may increase our ratings, but it will raise suspicions of the local gentry."
"I know. I'm sorry."
"Maybe you should swing by Starbucks and get yourself a glass of... whatever they serve at a Utah Starbucks..."
"Milk. It's all milk now. No-fat milk."
"Fine. I'll go work on the still."
Bom bom boooommmmm
Next week, on a very special "Mormon Underground"
"Bob! You non-Mormon underpants are showing!!! Get out of sight!"
25. the media said:
hey thats why god created alcohol. drink heavily, everything will be ok.
26. john said:
I visit Dooce because of the writing. Writing well requires a passion, a passion that shows when you write about Utah.
You also apparently have a passion for farting, which is fine too.
27. megchem said:
I agree with the media...that is how i survive in LA....dooce, there's a 26 year old in LA that likes fart stories....is that bad? Move to boulder that's where I'm headin whether it takes one year or 10...mama like!
28. Glovia said:
You know, cults are like that. You agree, or you're out. But, of course, mormonism is not a cult. Of course.
29. mormon said:
you could have moved
anywhere in the country, but *you* chose Utah.
30. kgjbnme said:
Dooce, baby, talk about the Mormonics all you want -- it's entertaining, thought-provoking, and kickass, no matter what. Now, as for your situation: after graduating from Columbia, I moved back to my Southern-Baptist-dominated small hometown in Texas for a couple of months, then moved an hour or so away to go to grad school (also in smalltown church-oriented Texas), and especially after NYC, it felt like a sojourn on the moon. I was depressed, I drank more than I should have, but in retrospect, it was a pretty great 20 months -- the Husband (who was just the Boyfriend then) and I were our own little world. And we made some great friends & had good times & ended up saving enough money to move to SF, where we've been for 4.5 years now. You & Chuckles & Senor Scrumptious will find like-minded friends and form your own Doocerific world out there... and we, your readers, will reap the benefits.
31. Chelle said:
Ooh, ow, augh, much bashing of the Catholics going on in the comments. Not all of us are sheep, yanno. (Unless you count the Biblical statements about the Good Shepherd and his fold, &c, &c...let's leave that train of thought, it does _nothing_ for my argument.)
Anyway -- keep your head up, Dooce. We're rooting for you.
32. Alli said:
I think you should continue to discuss topics that mean something to you. Don't cater to the 13-year-old in Wisconson. Cater to yourself.
33. Chris said:
I think there are probably millions of folks in Utah and the Mormon church who are living lives of "quiet disperation". Don't be one of them.
34. Sara, Brad and George said:
Move back to LA..please. I'll even let Chuck pee on my leg for ole' times sake. Called you today, call me back! Hang in there. love to you three-
35. Jeff said:
It's too bad they didn't call themselves "Puddle of Fucking Mud." That might actually have been an interesting band.
36. Beth said:
I wanted to send a little bit of support. I love your site (it is part of my morning wake-up ritual). I don't think it is just Utah or just the Mormons. Where ever you go, there you are. The people you find might make you screaming nuts, but they're just human for the most part. I still think it is healthy to bitch about your differences and stomp around a lot. You have a very strong voice. I think you will be okay. Just keep writing.
37. Heather #2 said:
Maybe you and John could start your online paper thing again. Something to pull likeminded Utah-ians into your social circle, leaving you with daily enlightening conversations about issues in which there actually exists a point, something for which to strive, hope, conversations with passion. Figure out what it will take for you to not whither away. And as another reader pointed out, one day you want to have children that you will raise in this place. If you are going to stay there, help to make it a place you'd like them to be raised. You are blessed to have such a wonderful life partner (or two!) - you all have proven you can make it through anything, eh? Lean on each other and continue to keep it ril!
38. Billy said:
I echo Ex-Liontamer's thought, but then go one more step: Sue the bastards -- you ought to be able to find a copy of the U.S. Constitution that has not been redacted by THE CHURCH. Or maybe not -- suing is evil.
39. Stephanie said:
I too, am an ex-Mormon. I can understand why it would be difficult to live in Mormonland. I also have a hard time agreeing with everything, and would have just as difficult time as you in your position. Other than to sympathize with you, though, I don't really know what to say. It's difficult turning your back on something that has seeped into your entire being - and harder than that to then be immersed in the very culture you despise (or at least disagree with). I feel for you, sista. PS, if it's your thang, you should check out www.notamormon.com. Lots of recovering's over there.
40. ex-liontamer said:
"Audemus iura nostra defendere", dude.
41. nicole said:
surely the reason you moved back to Utah is greater than all the reasons why you left . . ?
42. Stephanie said:
In fact, the more I think about it, if I ever lived in Utah I believe I would be forced to do all kinds of outrageous things to advertise my disagreement with Mormonism. And the things I have in mind wouldn't exactly be the mature way to handle my anger. :)
43. shel said:
Living in Canada, we notice that Americans are particularly obsessed with religion these days, and it's getting worse.
perhaps you should move to Canada. sure, it's colder, and aside from the wasteland of redneckia that I happen to reside in, it's generally much more tolerant of a lot of things. including the freedom from religion.
44. Kelly said:
Dooce, write about anything that passes through your gorgeous head! It doesn't matter what it is, because you can write. The way you spin a sentence inspires the shit out of me. Well. Not literally. Love your site and hope you find peace in Utah.
45. Jenny said:
Wow, your words are my thoughts, girlie. I, too, am a lefty dem living right in the heart of all this culturized 'b.o.m.-belt' Mormon govt. I feel your pain. I am sick of the front page of the newspaper ALWAYS having something to do with 'the church.' I also wish I didn't have to worry about where I am going to raise my kids one day when I have them... cause it sure as hell won't be here. I don't want them traumatized by the other kids... you know... "What? Your not Mormon? You're going to Hell!" There is so much to say about all this. Welcome to the state. There are enough of us here for a support group, at least.
46. semaphoria said:
oh my heck! i left utah seven years ago to come to the northwest. never looked back.
no matter how beautiful the mountains, no matter how safe the streets - the politics will always be waiting there to disgust you in the end. the catholics are nothing next to the mormons.
the only thing left to do is drink mad amounts of coffee and liquor and streak through temple square while it's all lit up purty for xmas!
47. eponymous said:
I might have missed it but why did you move back to Utah instead of a place in LA that didn't have dog threatening neighbors?
48. Katie said:
Every other religion, known to man, wants you to question things and wonder why things are the way they are. Sounds fishy to me.
49. Cody said:
Well, I'm happy as a Catholic but I'd still shudder at the thought of my Church running my local Government. That's so, like, Middle Ages.
And no, we don't capitalize everything having to do with the Church. For instance "heretic" "apostate" and "agnostic" are all lower case. :)
50. dooce said:
for clarification, there are many reasons we moved back to Utah, including but not limited to:
- immediate family on my side and my husband's side, all of whom can't wait to be a support group when I start popping out Little Scrumptious Bearded Babies.
- lots of nieces and nephews and cousins and Aunt Lolas who like to tell fart stories at the most inappropriate times, like say, at the formal dinner where you and your husband are introducing your respective families.
- fantastic mountain biking and hiking and scenic driving, some of the best (if not THE best) skiing and snowboarding in the world.
- cost of living
- totally psychotic sunsets
- Brewvies
51. eponymous said:
Excellent reasons. Sadly religious zealots live everywhere. The only place I have seen Agnostic win out is in Seattle.
52. kath said:
Wow, I so totally disagree with BeerzieBoy -- in a job, someone else owns the place so indeed you may not have any say in how it is run. But when you live in a state, you ARE one of the owners! And if a state as big as Utah doesn't have room for more than one mind, it's the state that needs to change, not the people who have their own minds. I think you have a constitutional obligation to scream bloody murder, dooce, when the Mormon church and the state of Utah act as one!! Oh, wait, maybe the church overrides the constitution in Utah...
53. sam said:
wouldn't you feel a lot better if you lived here instead of with your mom?
54. slackjaw said:
"Only Listend to NPR"??? (runs around screaming!!) GET OUT OF THE HOUSE... GET OUT OF YOUR CAR! AEEEEEEEIII!!!
Sorry, everytime I hear the words " I only listen to NPR" I remember a quote I read on f-train. "All NPR feels to my brain, like licking custard off of asphalt would feel to my tongue."
It seems to me you've just gone from one mind-numbing cultural creation to another.
(though having an angel named Maroni seems cool, kind of like having your very own custom-made can of Chef Boyardi!)
55. jess said:
brewvies? that's fucking cool.
also, dooce, i always read. whether you're being serious or hilarious. i love reading you. in fact, i check back many times a day waiting for an update. you never fail to cheer me up when i've had a bad day.
56. dooce said:
that's Moroni, slackjaw. and don't be dissing NPR. if I weren't already married, I'd totally go after Bob Edward's ass.
57. dooce said:
sam, don't you think you'd feel a lot better if you told your mom that you're wearing her panties?
58. peggy said:
I traveled to Utah regularly years ago, as a publisher's sales rep, and man it was hard- especially meeting with the buyers at the Deseret Books stores. I got the arched eyebrow from one after answering her questions: Um, 27. Uh no, I'm not married. I am of course what she suspected me to be, but it was hardly her beeswax. I used to be invited to the home of the owners of Cosmic Aeroplane books (wonder if they're still there), where I could smoke, drink, cuss, laugh, you know, feel normal. I don't envy you and Jon, but I know you can overcome that part of your outer world -your inner world and your family are what count.
59. Ren said:
I am slightly disturbed by the bashing element of some of the comments, just as I am disturbed by the oppression I often feel within my own religion (I'm a Mormon, yes I am...). For myself, I know the oppresion comes from the people and culture, and not from the "doctrine". Even knowing that, it is still oppresive. I hope to help change things, in my own way, with my own enlightened husband and children. I'm Mormon, mostly vote democrat (although Gore's a little freaky), pregnant, feminist, vegetarian, living in Utah. Upon review of the last passage, possibly bi-polar. Discrimination and intolerance comes in many forms, conservative or liberal.
p.s. dooce, I think your a-ok.
60. cicada said:
When it's all said and done, we are each responsible for living our own life, despite what anyone or anything else tells us. Any organization with any measurable power (be it socio-political-economic, whatever) is just begging to be questioned. Blind obeisance is for the stupid or irresponsible. Dooce, I hope you keep those questions coming. Let 'em out, baby!
61. kidfarthest said:
I think the Mormons are right about one thing-- you're not truly happy unless you're a drone. Because if you're a drone, then you belong, and we all wanna belong to something, don't we? Even the most counter of the counter culturalists is belonging in some inept way or another. Belonging to a huge and well-established religion is a much more skillful way to belong. It's survival, dude. Mormons survive very well. Give it up for indoctrination and procreation. The key, I believe, is a certain amount of acceptance, mixed with a certain amount of skepticism. If a drone, be a witty, adventurous drone-- but don't knock being a drone. We all really want to be one. After all, what is marriage but belonging to someone else? Belonging to a societal institution. Conforming to a tradition-- but you don't have to be an automoton about it.
I think a certain number of us need to seriously lower our standards and do a little accomodation of the cud-chewers who dominate our culture if only for the furtherance of the common good.
Who are we saving the planet for? The drones! Who do we love when we get that tingly feeling of brotherly & sisterly love? The cud-chewers and the drones!
Acceptance can't be rammed down our throats. Happiness is a gift that we can only give ourselves, and the drones have it handily gift-wrapped for your purchasing pleasure. We ain't no better than anyone else, Hoss. We just the same as all them other folks in the end.
And if we embraced the mundane maybe, just maybe, we could all figure out how to "just get along".
62. kidfarthest said:
Also-- putting up with other peoples' shit is maybe 75% of the fun of life. Learn to thrive on conflict and discomfort (preferably the discomfort of others). Mormons are a prime population for gustatory discomfiture. Dig it.
63. The Republican said:
U guys sound like a bucnch of whiney snot nosed litlle shits that never were told NO or SUCK IT UP!!! Of course things arent gonna go your way. Sometimes even when you are right, JUst shut up go to work pay your taxes as all you liberals love to do your fair share (Yeah Right) and quit ur bitching. Something is bothering you ??!! Do something other than BITCH about it.
64. sean said:
i'm hungry.
65. kidfarthest said:
I LOVE to hear Republicans whine. Primo discomfiture.
66. Jenny said:
WORD on the Brewvies.
You also must must try the new bar on State called 'The Bayou'. Try their Paulaner Oktoberfest Beer. Mmmmmmm....
67. eve said:
not everyone there is mormon. find them (echoing heather's thoughts)
my catholic monk friend moved there, and he's not very religious (and i am SO not kidding... he joined the monastery to see if he can find out why mom and dad were all over it and him and his siblings, well, never were).
68. Brent said:
Hmmm... Please indulge my cantankerousness a moment: isn't your post saying what you say you're not allowed to say? I understand your frustration, but -- fact is -- your (minority) voice is out there now. It may not be heard the way you want, but everyone in your position feels the same powerlessness. Democracy's a bitch when it doesn't go your way!Heck, I want the U.S. to metricate -- and I talk about it to whomever'll listen -- but I'll be damned if I see it in my lifetime! Hence the old phrase, "When in Rome..."
69. Me said:
You really should think about limiting or turning off the comments feature.
70. kgjbnme said:
Yo, Republican: Actually most of "us liberals" here *were* told "no," as in, "No, 'whiny' isn't spelled with an 'e,'" and as in "No, you may not call other people 'snot nosed litlle [sic] shits.'"
71. sourbob said:
Farts are all well and good, but I prefer your withering dissections of things that piss you off. Funny or not funny, it's the bile I relate to.
72. Stephen L. Richards said:
"I have said these things because I fear dictatorial dogmatism, rigidity of procedure and intolerance even more than I fear cigarettes, cards, and other devices the adversary may use to nullify faith and kill religion. Fanaticism and bigotry have been the deadly enemies of true religion in the long past. They have made it forbidding, shut it up in cold grey walls of monastery and nunnery, out of sunlight and fragrance of the growing world. They have garbed it in black and then in white, when in truth it is neither black nor white, any more than life is black or white, for religion is life abundant, glowing life, with all its shades, colors and hues, as the children of men reflect in the patterns of their lives the radiance of the Holy Spirit in varying degrees. "
"A good man, is a good man, whether in this church, or out of it."
-Brigham Young
Brigham Young on conformity:
73. mal said:
for what it's worth, an abundance of drones is not unique to mormondom. you'll find hundreds of thousands in frat houses on the east coast, in alaskan fisheries, in pta meetings and paloozas and at pride parades. drone-nivity is a function of one's self-image and fears, not one's beliefs.
however.
the sad fact is that majority voices have a tendency to rule and, as frustrating as it is, our responsibility as those with minority voices is to do exactly what you're doing: speak. become educated. scream and yell and jump up and down and then find ways to find peace for long stretches between tantrums, regardless of where that peace places you in relation to the so-called mainstream.
whatever works for you works, dooce. i think you're great and i support your indignance.
(go, fight, win.)
74. dennis said:
I'm beginning to feel a bit bad about all this picking-on-Utah, but... This caught my eye (from Fark.com): Utah Beer Tax ...Utah 51st among states in beer consumption, but want to raised taxes to discourage beer consumption.
75. Stan said:
I've been there Heather. Been through it and came out on the other side. I'm an LDS dropout too. I came back to Utah because it is my home, and because it is one of the most beautiful places in the world, and because what is most important in life, my family, is here. I try to do my bit for the opposition, express my opinion, vote on the liberal side of the issues, but for the most part I have come to a place where I can just ignore most of it and live my life with some serenity. I'm here because after all of my world travels and life changes, this is home. I guess home is, after all, where you grew up.
76. SnarkyPup said:
You know, I was having a kind of crappy day, thinking that I'm not so sure I like this place to which I moved last summer, and thinking I'm not so sure I like this job (or this line of work), which I've entered after 10 (count them, 10) years of grad school. Then I heard this afternoon that one of my best friends has colon cancer. Do you have colon cancer? No? Then maybe you should stop complaining about living somewhere new and rejoice about your nice, healthy colon.
77. The Mighty Jimbo said:
Those are all good reasons Dooce. But I can think of lots of places out west that have most of the same advantages. Sure it's good to be near the family, but won't they drive you more nuts than the sheep running the local govt? Sure, I love my family too, but I can't live within 1000 miles of them. Fart jokes notwithstanding. And lord knows, I love a good fart joke.
78. Tall1 said:
Your family must be pretty incredible to make it worth living in Utah. Twice you used the expression "Utah culture" as if such a thing actually exists.
79. ChibaCity said:
Tell them this. A Fatwa for thee. It is difficult to grasp the scope of
the revolution we are amidst. The earth now orbits the sun. Time is no
longer fit to a human scale -- two generations forward, two back -- but
is now infinite. A drop of water has been revealed to swim with as much
structure as the starry sky. And the sky: in each dot the size of a
pencil's point swim 1500 galaxies. We realize that the troposphere, lying
teeming and fecund on the earth, is only as thick as a sheen of oil on a
thousand kilometer deep lake. We understand that language, tools,
community, culture -- reason even -- are ordinary phenomena amongst
living communities. We know, as demonstrated so vividly by
Shoemaker-Levy's plunge into Jupiter, that our equilibria are indeed
punctuated. Species come, they go; we're just one more. We are awake
now, we are self-aware. We realize that rulers have no divine rights. We
know that a secular, plural state has the benefit of putting aside
factional, tribal, ethnic, and religious strife. We can look at our
grim, fractious, primate past and see our fratricidal, hierarchical,
territorial, symbol-soaked nature. We are beginning to have perspective
on the period of our dawning collective self-awareness and its cognitive
baby steps: our fawning worship of symbols, words, books, anthropomorphic
deities, and idols. Wallace's line, the Jedburgh unconformity, the deep
space field, the crater at Chicxulub; these are shattering revelations
for Homo sapiens sapiens. We do know all of this right?
80. Poop on a stick said:
but aren't mormons funny?
i mean come on!
is OSMOSIS something invented by the OSMONDS or is it some kinda of pyramid scheme????
Blah blah blah we all got our own problems, I have no representation in the senate or the house...
Keep up the good fight and KEEP THE MORMONS DOWN!!
Woops sorry.....
jj
Kiss kiss
Love
POOP
81. Indifferent Boy said:
Go to church, pray, end up as worm food same as everyone else who doesn't. Oh, and while we're at it: Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways.
82. Skip said:
Indeed. At least no matter where you come from or who you are, we all still have the commonality that is our fate of becoming an advanced lawn care product being secreted from the back end of an invertibrate. Puts the whole Mormon and religious thing in perspective. At least for me.
83. garrett said:
It's really late, which means I've lost the ability to be concise. Many apologies in advance.
For me, it was / is like this... you grow up Mormon (feel free to substitute plenty of other world religions/cultures). After a lifetime of indoctrination, for whatever reason(s) you decide you don't believe. That's a long story for another day.
(Always the critical-thinking skeptic, I also have a hard time agreeing with anything...)
You go through the processes of leaving, internal & external (or, personal & family/social)... both of which cause varying degrees of discomfort and pain.
You work your way through all that shit and (for those who end up truly leaving the mindset) finally realize "I'm free!"
Obviously it will always be a part of what defines you, having spent such a large proportion of your life immersed in that religious culture... but if you worked through it right, that's a positive thing. You move on and intend to live your life without undue fixation on the whole experience.
This is hardly a unique story... it happens all over the world in all religions and cultures.
The great frustration of living in Utah is the ubiquity of Mormonism (and other obnoxious elements of Utah culture). You feel surrounded once again... what you left behind is again in the forefront of your mind.
From my observation, some people can handle it better than others. If you want to stay here without going insane, you basically have to learn to live with it. As with any place, there's stuff that sucks and stuff that rocks... focus on the good, like the things you just listed above (how 'bout those sunsets?). I agree completely with Mal and Stan (though I would change "ignore" to "tolerate" in Stan's post.) Living in Utah will either drive you crazy or help you grow, giving a deeper understanding of tolerance, true activism, and living in a sea of that with which you don't agree (and which does not agree with you), etc. We're all humans, drones or not. (On the other hand, catch me in a bad mood and I could rant for hours.)
During the time I live here, I am determined to live happily and keep my blood pressure at a relatively healthy level. Which means - listen closely, Dooce - avoiding shitty local radio stations and watching the local news only on an occasional basis. Subscribe to the newspaper instead... But whatever you do, don't read the editorials every day. That's very bad for blood pressure.
(And, finally, a quick nod to ChibaCity's excellent post.)
I'll leave you alone now.
84. poopstick said:
Garret,
Can you summarize?
Too long!
kiss kiss
poop
85. garrett said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm never good at soundbites... but that was ridiculously long even for me. How's this: "I know what it's like; so do a lot of people. It does suck, but if you find the bright side you'll be better for it." OK? I'm going to sleep now...
86. The Pedant said:
Um, I think it's actually Puddle of Fucking Mudd... with two Ds. You're giving them too much credit that they can actually spell correctly.
87. HRH said:
Wow. After reading all of these horror stories of indoctrination and dronishness (not a word, I know), I am overcome with gratitude towards my parents for being agnostics who are a-o.k. with my atheism. Dooce, stay strong and do what you know is right. You're being hard on yourself. You're tough, you're an individual and you can challenge those oddly underpanted folks by living your life, your way.
88. Colin said:
Okay, Utah's got the Mormons. We in Massachusetts are still living under the pall of the Puritans with antiquated laws (called the "blue laws" because they were published in a book with a blue cover). And no-one in the legislature has the balls to change or repeal them.
89. Ex-liontamer said:
...I've run out of pithy Latin phrases...
90. EC said:
Bring it on, Dooce. You know, I've never really felt the Mor-mans I know (a couple of Mormon men) were any different from anybody else I know. I've just always thought of them as recovering alcoholics without the cigarettes and caffine. Seems there is much to learn. Appreciate the education.
91. HurgleGurgle said:
Sigh.
You could join the ACLU. But I don't remember you asking for our advice.
92. GurgleHurgle said:
The New Yorker: The Talk of the Town The problem, of course, is that niceness is overrated as a virtue. Many cultures are nice. The Southern antebellum aristocracy was marvellously well-mannered; its members left tasteful calling cards, entertained gracefully, and conducted their personal affairs with the utmost discretion. But they had few other virtues; in fact, it was the practice of niceness that helped to keep other values, such as fairness, at bay. Fairness sometimes requires that surfaces be disturbed, that patterns of cordiality be broken, and that people, rudely and abruptly, be removed from their place. Niceness is the enemy of fairness.
93. Miss Mea-Mea said:
Wow, see what you get when you stray from fart and poop jokes. Tons and tons of comments to read.
I moved 3,000 miles away from my family when I was 18, because I felt that the fight to be what I wanted to be was going to be a losing battle amidst so much family pressure. I loved the West Coast, but as I got older, started feeling as if I should reconcile my differences with the family. So when I was 27, I got the idea that I was grown up enough to do battle and win, and moved back. Har-de-fucking-har-har. Nothing has changed since 1990: same dramas, same bitching and moaning, same shitty attitude.
My point is that, having experienced something remotely similar, you have my sympathies.
94. pinky said:
Dooce, if you werent already married, you would be going for Ira Glass. He is fucking hot and dreamy as all get out. He gets salad dressing on his glasses when he eats.
95. Sarah B. said:
Back off, ladies. Ira is mine.
96. Dave said:
I appreciate any diatribe of yours, be it about farts or Mormons (interchangable?), but my question is, did the four years of therapy fool you into thinking that in that time period things in Utah would change? Or that in four years, after therapy, you'd be a different version of your former self and would now be able to live there and withstand the rules of the land that one day not so long ago made you flee to the one place in Northern America whose morals oppose everything the Mormon so-called "Church" stands for?
97. Pete said:
Welcome back.
-a Mormon Democrat.
98. ex southern babtist said:
Most of the time I listen to NPR too.
99. exsouthern babtist said:
I have a tendancy to disagree with a lot of things myself. My father calls it being contrary. Being contrary definitely keeps life amusing. Keep it up. I know I will.
If I sound grumpy it's because I am. Ba humbug. The traffic and the people are making me crazy. I'll be glad when this season is over.
100. Peach said:
I can understand how you feel. But I was lucky enough not to have my head'stuffed' with religious propaganda when I was young.(good or bad my Dad is an agnostic)
I do not know a whole lot about the Mormon religion except I believe in some of their practices.(ie helping their people in need)If it was your desire to be back with family and familiarity and friends,then maybe you can live there 'on your own terms'. I am sure there are other Mormons like you.
If you find that the whole way of this'following' is helping you to not heal and you don't feel peace, I would think that Utah is not the place for you and there are many other options including getting the hell out of there. What is life without peace of mind?
101. daily reader said:
there's a very good reason that religion either results in being the subject of jokes or the basis for going to therapy. it's just an alternate political system that fucks people up. not that the underlying beliefs can't occasionally make people behave, but for my money it's all a mess. mormons, catholics, whatever. you should get a t-shirt/button/bumpersticker/billboard made that says "ask me why i'm not a mormon". like the "ask me why i'm a christian" of yore.